rmd after rollover

Client retiring and turning 70 1/2 in 2008. Has both 401k and traditional IRA. Can she transfer the 401k and existing IRA into a rollover IRA and take the RMD for 2008 both BOTH accounts from the new IRA by 4/15/09?



No. The plan administrator is supposed to withhold the RMD from the transfer in this situation because 2008 is a distribution year even though it is prior to the RBD year. This applies to QRP to IRA rollovers but not to IRA to IRA rollovers.

Sometimes the administrator will mess up and transfer the entire amount. Since this is reported as a distribution and rollover on line 16 of Form 1040, the client will be construed to have received her RMD, however since she rolled it over, she has created an excess contribution because an RMD is not rollover eligible. She would then have to correct the excess contribution in the usual fashion.

In summary, the RMD should not be transferred, but in the event it is, the “fix” is described above. Of course, the RMD from the original IRA balance can be deferred to the RBD date if desired. Incidentally, that RBD date is 4/1/09, not 4/15.

Do the above rules apply to a rollover from 401(a) and 403(b) plans?

Yes.
Following is from IRS Regs 1.401a(9)(7):

Q–3. In the case of a transfer of an amount of an employee’s benefit from one plan (transferor plan) to another plan (transferee plan), are there any special rules for satisfying section 401(a)(9) or determining the employee’s benefit under the transferor plan?

A–3. (a) In the case of a transfer of an amount of an employee’s benefit from one plan (transferor plan) to another (transferee plan), the transfer is not treated as a distribution by the transferor plan for purposes of section 401(a)(9). Instead, the benefit of the employee under the transferor plan is decreased by the amount transferred. However, if any portion of an employee’s benefit is transferred in a distribution calendar year with respect to that employee, in order to satisfy section 401(a)(9), the transferor plan must determine the amount of the required minimum distribution with respect to that employee for the calendar year of the transfer using the employee’s benefit under the transferor plan before the transfer. Additionally, if any portion of an employee’s benefit is transferred in the employee’s second distribution calendar year but on or before the employee’s required beginning date, in order to satisfy section 401(a)(9), the transferor plan must determine the amount of the minimum distribution requirement for the employee’s first distribution calendar year based on the employee’s benefit under the transferor plan before the transfer. The transferor plan may satisfy the minimum distribution requirement for the calendar year of the transfer (and the prior year if applicable) by segregating the amount which must be distributed from the employee’s benefit and not transferring that amount. Such amount may be retained by the transferor plan and must be distributed on or before the date required under section 401(a)(9).

(b) For purposes of determining any required minimum distribution for the calendar year immediately following the calendar year in which the transfer occurs, in the case of a transfer after the last valuation date for the calendar year of the transfer under the transferor plan, the benefit of the employee as of such valuation date, adjusted in accordance with A–3 of §1.401(a)(9)–5, will be decreased by the amount transferred, valued as of the date of the transfer.

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Just one more question. If there are multiple 401 and 403b accounts at different institutions, can the RMD be disbursed from one account prior to all accounts being rolled over?

Not if the direction of the transfers is 401 to 403. Each 401k must hold back it’s own RMD for that distribution year.

However, 403b accounts can be aggregated for RMD purposes, per the following IRS Reg:

Q–4. Is the required minimum distribution from one section 403(b) contract of an employee permitted to be distributed from another section 403(b) contract in order to satisfy section 401(a)(9)?

A–4. Yes, as provided in paragraph (b) of A–1 of this section, the distribution rules in section 401(a)(9) will be applied to section 403(b) contracts in accordance with the provisions in §1.408–8. Thus, the required minimum distribution must be separately determined for each section 403(b) contract of an employee. However, as provided in A–9 of §1.408–8 with respect to IRAs, such amounts may then be totaled and the total distribution taken from any one or more of the individual section 403(b) contracts. However, consistent with the rules in A–9 of §1.408–8, only amounts in section 403(b) contracts that an individual holds as an employee may be aggregated. Amounts in section 403(b) contracts that an individual holds as a beneficiary of the same decedent may be aggregated, but such amounts may not be aggregated with amounts held in section 403(b) contracts that the individual holds as the employee or as the beneficiary of another decedent. Distributions from section 403(b) contracts or accounts will not satisfy the minimum distribution requirements for IRAs, nor will distributions from IRAs satisfy the minimum distribution requirements for section 403(b) contracts or accounts.
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