Pre-tax employer contributions added to Vanguard Roth IRA account

Submitted by Noah Krueger on Wed, 2022-02-23 20:32

I have simplified the numbers, but here’s my situation:

Roth 401K of $80K consists
– $60K personal contributions
– $20K employer contributions (pretax)

401K of $100K

Employer cuts 2 checks:
– $80K (consists of post and pretax)
– $100K (consists of only pretax)

When adding the checks to Vanguard, it didn’t ask me for the Roth check if it included pre and post tax. The result was $80K went into my Roth account and $100k into my rollover account.

I called Vanguard to see if they would be sending me a tax form and they said they didn’t have any advice for my situation and to consult a CPA instead.

Questions:
Is it best to pay the taxes now? If so, what form would I create?
Or is it better to just hold onto the number and sort it out later? Can I even pay taxes now or is there not a way?

Thanks in advance!
Noah



Submitted by Alan - IRA critic on Wed, 2022-02-23 21:08

There is no tax due. A Roth 401k rollover to a Roth IRA is not taxable. However, if the Roth 401k was not yet qualified, your Roth IRA regular contribution balance is increased by 60k, and the other 20k becomes Roth IRA earnings. You need to keep track of that in case you take a Roth IRA distribution. 
You will get a 1099R from employer for each direct rollover. Vanguard will issue a 5498 reporting a rollover contribution to the Roth IRA, and a rollover contribution to the rollover IRA. You do not need a special form to report these rollovers, they go directly on lines 5a and 5b of Form 1040.
Again, no taxes should be due. However, I do question your description of 20k of employer contributions in the Roth 401k. Employer matching for the Roth go into the pre tax account, therefore that 20k is likely gains on your personal contributions to the Roth 401k.

Submitted by Noah Krueger on Wed, 2022-02-23 22:04

Alan, you raise a very good point. I do seem to remember the Fidelity rep saying the $20k was employer contributions, as those are not post-tax and were added after I switched to a Roth 401k. Here’s how the distribution paperwork chart looks for the Roth 401k portion. Some of the wording is very confusing.
Total Distribution: $80k
Return of Roth After-Tax Contribution: $60k
Total Taxable Amount (amounts rolled over are not taxable now see footnote): $20k
Ordinary Income: $20k
Eligible for Rollover: $80k
IRA Rollover Amount: $80k
Footnotes: 
Portion of total distribution consisting of Roth contributions and applicable earnings. This information will be necessary when rolling over to an IRA or another employer plan.
Pre-tax amounts rolled over are not taxable now unless they are converted to a Roth IRA.
 That 2nd footnote is what is confusing me. It really sounds like I should be paying some taxes if the taxable amount was dumped into a Roth Ira, but I could be totally confused about something as well.

Submitted by Noah Krueger on Wed, 2022-02-23 22:13

duplicate post, please ignore

Submitted by Alan - IRA critic on Wed, 2022-02-23 22:48

The second footnote refers to a conversion to Roth IRA. This is not a conversion because the entire 80k is already in a Roth. A conversion would be if you rolled over some of the non Roth 401k to your Roth IRA, and you did not do that. Since you are not referring to 1099R forms, it sounds like these rollovers were done in 2022 so no 1099R till next January, and instead you are concerned with estimated taxes. But since these rollovers as you described them are not currently taxable, there is no need to pay estimated taxes for these rollovers. 
The 1099R for the Roth rollover should be coded H and Box 2a (taxable amount) will be 0, per p 5 of the 1099R Inst.

Submitted by Noah Krueger on Wed, 2022-02-23 23:04

I didn’t mention this in the original post, but the rollover happened in November 2021. Maybe the fact that I didn’t receive a 1099R is further confirmation that I won’t need to owe any taxes.Thank you for your response!

Submitted by David Mertz on Thu, 2022-02-24 00:31

As Alan suggests, it appears that the $80k in the Roth 401(k) consisted of $60k of contributions and $20k of investment gains.
A direct rollover from a Roth 401(k) to a Roth IRA in 2021 is required to have been reported by the plan on a 2021 Form 1099-R with code H and is a nontaxable rollover.
The rollover from the traditional 401(k) account is required to have been reported on a separate Form 1099-R, code G if it was a direct rollover.
Employer contributions would have gone to the traditional account.  The employer is not permitted to deposit them into the designated Roth account.

Add new comment

Log in or register to post comments