Bank lost beneficiary form wants to distribute IRA to estate

Submitted by Michelle Early on Fri, 2023-05-12 16:59

I am the executor of my father’s estate. My parents set up IRA in the 1980’s with each other as beneficiaries. The original bank where the IRAs were set up sold and the accounts ended up at Chase. After my father’s death Chase said they could not find the beneficiary form in their records and thus will be treated as if there is no beneficiary. I wrote a letter and included a copy of my mother’s original IRA paperwork from her account showing my father as beneficiary stating that his paperwork would mirror hers.
We want to roll the funds in the IRA to another IRA that my mother has at a different bank. Our CPA has advised us not to let Chase give it to the estate. Texas is a community property state and Chase has not presented any documnetation that the spouse (my mother, married at father’s death) had waived her interest in the accounts. We have been in a stalemate with Chase since 2018 over this issue. Recently Chase sent a letter that they were turning the accounts over to the state of Texas due to no activity. We got that stopped, but are still in a stalemate over transfer of the IRA funds. Any help appriciated. Thank you.



Submitted by Alan - IRA critic on Fri, 2023-05-12 17:46

Any documentation showing that mother was at one time the beneficiary would be meaningless to Chase, since that could have been changed anytime by father. Who has father named as beneficiary under his will? Note that there is also a problem with missed RMDs over these years. How old was father in 2018?



Submitted by Michelle Early on Thu, 2023-05-18 15:31

The will sets out the accounts that are considered community property including this IRA.



Submitted by David Carrell on Tue, 2023-05-16 15:30

  • Not strictly applicable in this case, but were there documentation showing that Wife was original or at one time Beneficiary and Chase claimed it was later changed, would not the burden be on Chase to support that it was changed? 
  • Under your scenario, Chase could just unilaterally in every case declare that information on beneficiaries was lost (on Chase’s end) so all IRA are simply always paid to the estate.
  • It would seem any DATED Beneficiary documentation would bear out over no documentation under the assumption that ‘well since it could have changed, we don’t care if you show us you were bene, since maybe it was changed and we lost that paperwork also, we chose to assume it was changed to no bene.’
  •  
  • OP, as you have the paperwork for Mother IRA showing deceased as beneficiary, would it not make sense you should have the same for Father?
  • Since I assume these IRA’s opened at the same time approx., showing me that you have Mother’s paperwork but not showing me Father’s paperwork, would raise a flag to me to ask, ‘Why not? Is there some reason you don’t have this same paperwork for Father’s account?’
  • Thus while I don’t agree with the ‘well it could have changed’ argument (though I fully respect Allan’s postings and I definitely could be wrong), I still don’t see much value in the ‘here’s mom’s and dad’s would be similar argument.’
  • There could be a litany of reasons that Father’s IRA would not “mirror” Mother’s.


Submitted by Michelle Early on Thu, 2023-05-18 15:30

Texas is a community property state. If a spouse gives up her right to her part of the property there would have to be a waiver or paperwork indicating that. They were married at time of death. He was 79. Chase produced the paperwork for my mother’s IRA in their research of my father’s account. We unfortunately don’t have the 40+ year old paperwork. My parents went into a Chase branch after they redid their wills to ensure everything was set with beneficairies and accounts. That was a few years prior to dad’s death. 



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