Using NUA for RMD cont’d
My apologies for starting a new topic. My original seems to have gotten lost in the thread, as I haven’t seen a response in a couple of days. I’m repeating my last post here with a couple of modifications/additions. (For reference, please see topic Using NUA for RMD.)
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I met with my 401k consultant 11/19/24 and told him of my decision to defer the 2024 RMD to 2025 and to sell the NUA shares not needed to satisfy my 2 years of RMDs plus a little more. I am able to use the 7859 after-tax amount to reduce the cost basis, so that is good news. Good news also is that the market value has increased from 207k to 258k! I’m also due to get matching contributions and possible profit-sharing at the end of the year, so that will have some effect.
To try to make this an uncomplicated as possible, I plan to open a separate brokerage account for the distributed NUA shares and not have the dividends reinvested. I have no need to sell them in the first 12 months.
My challenge, now, is that the 401k consultant seems to think the RMD amount is applied to the cost basis and not the market value. Obviously, if the 1099R is not completed correctly, I will be paying much more in taxes than I should. I have scoured the web for information about using NUA for RMD. Other than the many very informative entries on the Ed Slott Discussion Forum, there are very few articles related to this specific situation. I also haven’t been able to find anything specific in the IRS guidelines. Can you point me to any additional information or examples specifically using NUA for first RMD? I did review the 1099R Instructions. Would these be the right entries considering a 2-year RMD of $150,000?
Box 1 – 150,000 (FMV of distributed shares – to be applied to RMD)
Box 2a – 93,329 (Cost basis of shares)
Box 2b – X (Total distribution, i.e., one or more distributions within 1 tax year in which the entire balance of the account is distributed)
Box 5 – 7859 (after-tax amount)
Box 6 – 56,671 (NUA)
Box 7 – Code 7 and IRA/SEP/SIMPLE checkbox NOT checked
Thank you for your invaluable help, as always.
Permalink Submitted by Alan - IRA critic on Fri, 2024-11-22 15:07
The custodian is incorrect about the RMD being limited to the cost basis. The entire value of the shares (cost basis + NUA) are treated as RMD amounts, so Box 1 of the 1099R all counts toward the RMD. You need to convince the custodian of this and below I have copied IRS Reg 1.401(a)(9)-5(g) that clearly confirms this with specific reference to NUA.
“General rule. Except as provided in this paragraph (g)(2), all amounts distributed from an individual account under a defined contribution plan are distributions that are taken into account in determining whether this section is satisfied for a calendar year, regardless of whether the amount is includible in income. Thus, for example, amounts that are excluded from income as recovery of investment in the contract under section 72 generally are taken into account for purposes of determining whether this section is satisfied for a calendar year. Similarly, amounts excluded from income as net unrealized appreciation on employer securities generally are taken into account for purposes of satisfying this section.”
Note that (g)(2) just states that excess contributions in the plan are not eligible for rollover and do not count toward the RMD, and that hopefully is not relevant in your situation.
Your 1099R example is correct except that Boxes 2a, 5 and 6 combined should be equal to Box 1 because 5 is included in Box 1.
Of course, you will get another 1099R coded G to report the direct rollover of the balance of the account to a rollover IRA. If you already have an IRA you can roll into that one. The exception would be if you live in a state that does not provide decent IRA creditor protection because rollover IRAs have no dollar limit on creditor protection under the 2005 bankruptcy Act, whereas IRA to which you contributed directly are limited to about 1.5mm.
While the entire value of the distribution of NUA shares counts toward the RMD for both years, the first dollars distributed are treated as the RMD. Therefore, the distribution of the shares to the brokerage account should be completed before the direct rollover of the rest. Doing this in the wrong order would technically apply the RMD to the rollover and not the shares, although the IRS does not know the order of these transactions unless they specifically inquire as to dates.
Am sure you know this, but when calculating your two RMDs, the 2024 RMD was based on the 12/31/2023 account value even though you will distribute it in 2025. The 2025 RMD is based on the 12/31/2024 account value.
Did you get any info for the mechanics of selling NUA shares in the plan before any distributions or using only some of the shares for NUA distribution (to get to your 2 year RMD total), while rolling over the rest?